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Why Aren’t You Asking? How To Get What You Want with Dr. Wayne Baker

Lace Gilger
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In this episode we unlock the POWER of ASKING. When you ask for what you need, miracles can happen, but so many of us are too afraid to really ask, or we feel like we don’t know how or what we should be asking for. How do you get better at ask? How can you tap the tremendous power and potential of the social capital within your network by using the power of asking? We answer these questions and much more with our guest Dr. Wayne Baker.

How to unlock the incredible power and potential of your network and the social capital

Dr. Wayne Baker is an American author and sociologist on the senior faculty of the University of Michigan Ross School of Business. He is best known for his research in economic sociology, and his survey research on values, where he documented Americans’ core values. He writes in both academic and popular media on this theme and is often invited to present his findings across the U.S.

  • What’s the difference between “paying it back” versus “paying it forward” - what’s the difference?

  • What is a kidney chain? And what can it teach us about the importance of “paying it forward?"

  • What is a reciprocity ring and how can it change the way you interact with your social network?

  • What is social capital?

  • The network that we are involved in and all of the resources that the network contains.

  • When you ask for what you need - miracles can happen

  • There is a wealth of opportunity at your fingertips - but you have to ASK for it!

  • What are the biggest reasons that people don’t ask for what they need? What stops you from asking for help on the most important things in your life?

  • Why is it so hard to ask for what we need?

  • How do we get better at asking?

  • What should you do if you aren’t clear about what you need? What should you do if you don’t know what to ask for?

    • Start with figuring out your goal. What’s your goal? What are you trying to achieve?

    • What resources do you need to achieve that goal? Money? Advice? Resources?

    • Then you have to figure out WHO to ask

    • Then you have to MAKE the ask

  • The “two step” method for asking for anything you want. You may not directly know someone, but you probably know someone who knows someone.

  • The “quick start method” for figuring out WHAT YOU NEED and ASKING FOR IT

    • I am currently working on ______ and I could use help to _______

    • One of my urgent tasks is to ______ and what I need is _________

    • My biggest hope is to _____ and I need to ______

  • Visioning - developing a detailed, vivid, description of a positive future. Then you start to identify the goals that are in that vision, that back that into request.

  • What is a SMART request?

    • Specific request. The more specific the better.

    • Meaningful and important. Why is it important to you? Don’t leave this out.

    • Actionable, action oriented. Ask for something to be done. A GOAL is not a request, a request is something that helps you move towards your goal (destination).

    • Realistic, but don’t hold back, aim big - stretch and make the biggest request you can think of, but it has to be realistically achievable

    • Time bound - when do you need it by?

  • People don’t know WHY you’re asking for something unless you EXPLAIN.

  • Research is very clear - the more specific your request, the more likely people are to help.

  • If you make a smart, well formulated request people are more likely to think you’re smart and competent.

  • People are more willing to help than you think they are.

  • Action item: Make a small request in a safe place.

  • Action item: Use the reciprocity ring or other tools to create structured ways to interact and ask.

  • How to integrate the “Stand Up” into your routines and meetings to structure asking into the natural rhythms of your work and life.

  • People are willing to help, they are willing to give, but you have to ASK - because people can’t read your mind

  • Life is about connection and asking is what jump starts the power of your connections.

  • Be a giver-request - be very generous and freely help other people even if they’ve never helped you, or can never help you in the future.

  • Freely give help and freely ask for what you need - this the most powerful mode of being.

  • Don’t be a lone wolf. Doing it all by yourself is a recipe for failure.

  • Overly generous giving, without ever ASKING for what you need - leads to burnout.

  • Homework: Apply the elements from the quick start method questions above to figure out what you need help with.

  • Homework: Assess where you are on the spectrum of giving and asking.

Thank you so much for listening!

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:04.4] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to The Science of Success. Introducing your host, Matt Bodnar.

[0:00:11.8] MB: Welcome to the Science of Success; the number one evidence-based growth podcast on the Internet with more than four million downloads and listeners in over a hundred countries.

In this episode, we unlock the power of asking. When you ask for what you need, miracles can happen, but so many of us are too afraid to really ask, or feel like we don’t know how or what we should be asking for. How do you get better at asking? How can you tap the tremendous power and potential of the social capital within your own network by using the power of asking? We answer these questions and share some incredible strategies with our guest, Dr. Wayne Baker.

Are you a fan of the show and have you been enjoying the content that we put together for you? If you have, I would love it if you signed up for our e-mail list. We have some amazing content on there, along with a really great free course that we put a ton of time into called How To Create Time for What Matters Most In Your Life.

If that sounds exciting and interesting and you want a bunch of other free goodies and giveaways along with that, just go to successpodcast.com. You can sign up right on the homepage. That’s successpodcast.com. Or if you’re on your phone right now, all you have to do is text the word “smarter", that’s S-M-A-R-T-E-R to the number 44-222.

In our previous interview, we showed you how to grow a business with no capital, no product and no service. We discovered how to train yourself to spot outrageous business opportunities surrounding you in everyday life and we gave you the strategies for building trust with your ideal clients and business partners. We asked what does it take to become great in your career, job, business and life. We looked exactly at how you can achieve greatness in those key areas. We discussed all of that and much more with our previous guest, Jay Abraham. If you want to start or grow a business but you don't have the money, capital or resources you need, listen to that interview.

Now, for our interview with Wayne.

[0:02:21.0] MB: Today, we have another exciting guest on the show, Wayne Baker. Wayne is an American author and sociologist on the senior faculty of the University of Michigan Ross School of Business. He's best known for his research in economic sociology and his survey research on values, where he documented America's core values. He writes in both academic and popular media on this theme, is often involved to present his findings across the US in various different media outlets. Wayne, welcome to the Science of Success.

[0:02:47.5] WB: Thank you, Matt. Glad to be here.

[0:02:48.9] MB: Well, we're really excited to have you on the show today. There's so many interesting and important lessons from your work and your research that I want to dig into. I'd love to start out with a simple concept, which is the idea of paying it forward.

[0:03:04.3] WB: Paying it forward is one of the most powerful human principles. We can start with the idea of just paying it back. You help me and I help you in return, we call that direct reciprocity and that's important. You would want that to happen. Paying it forward is a little bit different, which is that you help me and I'm grateful and I pay it forward and help a third person. That turns out to be the most powerful form of reciprocity in a group, or an organization, or even in a community.

[0:03:32.8] MB: That's fascinating. The distinction between repaying a favor and helping someone who previously helped you, versus helping a stranger and passing it on is really fascinating. You hear about that in the sense of karma, or being a good person, or doing it because of the right thing, etc. There's actually some really fascinating research that comes out of that as well and some really interesting conclusions.

I know one of the things that you talk about that I'd never heard of that I thought was quite interesting was the idea of a kidney chain. Can you talk about that and maybe some of the other lessons from the research you've done around paying it forward as well?

[0:04:06.8] WB: Yeah. Kidney chain is a perfect example of paying it forward. There are many examples of this. Sometimes these chains are quite long. You have two kidneys and you could live a healthy life with only one. What did these change was started by a guy named Matt Jones. He lives here in Michigan. He decided that he wanted to change someone's life. He went through a process by which he volunteered to donate one of his kidneys to a complete stranger. The person who got it was near death, was on the verge of total kidney failure. Receiving that kidney saved that person's life.

Well, it turns out that person was married and the husband who would have donated his own kidney, but they weren't compatible, bond types, that sort of thing. Was so grateful that he said, “You know, I want to do the same thing and I'm going to pay forward one of my kidneys to another stranger.” You can imagine, this goes on and on and on and these chains are really quite long at this point. It's people feeling enormously grateful. The lives of their loved ones were saved and that motivates them to pay for it, one of their kidneys to someone else. It's really quite amazing and a testament to I think the goodness in humankind.

[0:05:22.9] MB: It's such a unique story. These kidney chains can get sometimes dozens of people long, right?

[0:05:29.8] WB: Oh, yeah. They really can. There are some hospitals that will help to facilitate the whole process. There are kidney registries, where people may get involved in it. It is interesting though, if you want to volunteer one of your kidneys, you would have to go through not only a physical examination that you're healthy enough to do it, but a psychological examination to try to uncover your motives, why did you want to do this. I find this really interesting. I suppose it's important to do that.

It’s interesting. We say, well, what's a person's motive for wanting to pay it forward? In the case of the chain that started here in Michigan, it was a person who said, “I really want to make a significant difference in someone's life,” and decided that was the way he was going to do it.

[0:06:14.1] MB: That was my next question. What drives people to help others, as opposed to hanging it back? The kidney chain is obviously one example of this. What happens in the world and to other people when we start to shift our approach towards paying it forward?

[0:06:33.8] WB: There's two explanations for paying it forward, what the motivations would be for doing that. One I mentioned, which is that you help me and I feel grateful for that help and I pay it forward and I help a third person. If you talk to economists, they'll say there's a more self-interested reason for helping, which is that I'm willing to help someone who has not helped me, because I want to look good. It's all about impression management. It's all about my reputation. I'm going to appear generous, so therefore, other people will be more likely to help me in the future.

Now that's fine and I have no problem with that. The interesting thing is that the research on these two different motivations, being I'm going to help someone who hasn't helped me to build my reputation that will make me appear as a generous person, I'll be helped in the future. Versus the idea of paying it forward out of gratitude. Those research has been done in two different streams. I did a study with Nat Buckley, where we put together both of those and ran what we call a horse race. We said, “Okay, we're going to collect a whole bunch of data and we're going to analyze statistically those two reasons, those two motivations and we control it for a host of other factors through all these statistical models.”

We're going to run this horse race. We're going to see which worse crosses the line first. I'll cut right to the finish line. It turns out that both horses cross the finish line, but the one that wins the race is the gratitude story, the idea that we pay it forward. We help people who haven't helped us, because we're so grateful for all the help that we have received from other people.

[0:08:01.4] MB: That's fascinating. The work that you've done around paying it forward and this may be, I don't know if I'm characterizing exactly correctly, but either led to or was a part of the creation, or discovery of what you call a reciprocity ring. Tell me a little bit about that and what are those and how do they work?

[0:08:24.6] WB: Yeah, reciprocity ring is a group level activity based on this whole principle of paying it forward. It was an activity that my wife, Cheryl, and I created about 20 years ago. We had an interesting conversation one evening. I'll never forget it. She said, “Okay, you teach your MBA students how to analyze their social networks.” I said, “Yup, that's what I do. That's what I know how to do.” She says, “Well, what do you do when they ask you how do I put this into practice and how do I build my network appropriately and how do I use my network?” I said, “Well, I have some stories and some antidotes and essentially, I hope the bell is going to ring and class would be over, because I don't have a whole lot.”

That centered a whole conversation about the idea of social capital. I think about human capital as our strengths, education, skills, the things that usually appear on your resume. Social capital is the network that we’re involved in and all the resources that it contains. I said, social capital is a combination of the networks that we have, but also this principle of generalized reciprocity, which is the fancy academic term for paying it forward.

We had a discussion about that and one thing led to another and we created a prototype of the reciprocity ring. After some trial and error, really settled on a formula or a recipe that really works quite well. I could describe it very briefly and will sound very simple, but there's a very structured way it has to be done. In fact, we train people to run a reciprocity domain, because they have to follow a certain recipe. Essentially, everyone gets an opportunity to make a request. We have criteria for what's a well-formulated request and that's something we might talk about later on in the show.

Everybody gets to make a request, but they spend most of the time helping other people meet their requests. Either they've got the answer, or the resource and they could share it, or they get tap their outside network and they could make a referral, or a connection. Those are the two ways that people can help. When people do this in a group, people discover that they get help from a lot of people, but it's not the people that they helped. It's more of this indirect generalized reciprocity, or paying it forward.

Now we do this in groups of about 24. I think over a 150,000 people around the world have used the reciprocity ring. It’s used in most of the major business schools, a lot of different companies. It was used recently at the Harvard Business School, where they had 900 MBAs engaged in this. We had about 40 different rings running at the same time. My favorite one and I think that's the most moving example of a request that was fulfilled was about a little girl who lived in Romania. Her name is Christina.

Christina suffered from a condition called craniosynostosis. The human skull is made up of different bones and they're joined by sutures, these fibrous tissues. This design allows the skull to expand as the brain and the head grow. Well every now and then, one of those joints or sutures will fuse prematurely and then the brain can't grow. The outcomes are awful. You can have a misshapen head, learning difficulties, blindness, seizures, even death.

Well, the chances of finding a surgeon who could correct this on Romania were pretty slim. This little girl's fate was up for grabs. Well, it turned out that her aunt Felicia lives in France and she works at the business school INSEAD. They used a reciprocity to ring every year for all their incoming MBA students. Part of being trained to run a ring, that's what Felicia was going to do, she was on the staff, she had to make a personal request. The trainer said, “Make sure it's meaningful. Something really important.”

She thought of her little niece back at Romania. Made a request for her, saying describe the whole situation and said, “I need help. She needs help.” Turns out that someone else who was in the reciprocity ring that day, who was also being trained, he was adjunct faculty, worked at a pediatric hospital and said, “I know surgeons who can do that operation. I'll introduce you.”

One thing led to another. Christina and her family flew for Romania to France. She had the surgery. It was a complete success and she's now living a happy and normal life. It's amazing. I have a picture of her that I keep on my desk to remind me of the power of asking for what you really need. When you do, miracles can happen, just like that story with Christina.

[0:12:47.7] MB: Wow. That's a really moving story and a great demonstration of the power of reciprocity rings. It really demonstrates a point you made earlier that everybody's network –every single person's network has a tremendous amount of untapped potential, or as you called it social capital that we're just not fully maximizing.

[0:13:12.4] WB: Oh, absolutely. What I've learned over the years is that there is a wealth of resources out there just beyond your fingertips. The only way you can get to it is by asking. That turns out to be the crux of the problem, is that most people are very reluctant to ask for what they need. There's a lot of reasons for it. There's eight reasons, in fact, of why it's hard to ask. Some of those are just incorrect beliefs. I can give you a couple of examples.

Sometimes, we don't ask because we're afraid we're going to look foolish, or incompetent, or that we can't do our jobs. You don't want to ask a trivial request, because then that's not going to raise your perceptions of your confidence. What the research shows and this was done by a team of researchers from Harvard and Wharton, they found that as long as you make a thoughtful, intelligent request, people will think you are more competent, not less. People fear that asking is going to make them appear to be incompetent.

As long as it's a good request, it’s a thoughtful request people will say, “Hey, you're confident. You know your limits.” You don't keep banging your head against the wall, working on a problem where it could be solved much more effectively and easily by reaching out to your network and getting some help from other people.

Another barrier is that we often underestimate other people's willingness and ability to help by a really big factor. One of my favorite studies was done by Frank Flynn and his team when they were at the Columbia University. They decided to test this with a field experiment, which is they were going to send people who are participating in the study out into New York City to do this. They had to go to a stranger and ask to borrow their cellphone. That's all they could say. They said, “Could I borrow your cellphone to make a call?” They couldn't explain, or beg, or plead, or come up with a sob story. That's all they could do.

It was really interesting, Matt. A number of the people who signed up for this experiment and you get paid for doing it, for participating. When they discovered what it was about, they quit and they said, “There's no way I'm going to go do that. I'm not going to walk in through a stranger in New York and ask to borrow a cellphone.” Some people did participate in the study. Before they went out, the researchers asked them, “Well, how many people do you think you're going to have to ask before you get a phone?” They were saying, “Five, six, seven, 10, infinite number of people, I'll never get one.” Well, it turns out that you only have to ask one or two strangers now.

If the first person doesn't let you use their phone, the second person probably will. There's a lot of other studies that support that that we often don’t ask because we think no one can help us. In fact, people have lots of resources. They have great networks and people are very willing to help, but they could only help you if you ask.

[0:15:56.5] MB: A really powerful lesson. I want to dig into a lot of the things around more about why we don't ask and also how we can start to really put together well-formulated requests and ask. Before we begin to that, I want to circle back and just hear one or two other stories to really impact this and show people the power that the untapped potential that lays within their networks. Tell me one or two other outrageous examples of things that have been fulfilled from using something like a reciprocity ring exercise.

[0:16:28.8] WB: Well, I recall one time that I was running the reciprocity ring for General Motors here in Michigan. It was a diverse group of people. There was a senior engineer who made a request for help for expertise to solve this complex engineering problem. It had something to do with aluminum extrusion. I have to confess, I had no idea what he was talking about, but other people did. This request was for an expert to help him solve that problem.

The help came from the most unlikely source, which was a 22-year-old admin who had just been hired by the company. You might wonder, I mean, how could that person actually help? Well, it turned out that her father was the world's expert in that particular technology. He had recently retired. His wife was encouraging him to spend more time outside of the home. There was plenty of opportunity there. What she did, she introduced that senior engineer with her father. They got together and they solved this complex technological problem.

You never would guess that it would be a 22-year-old admin that would be that link or the connection. Again, people know lots of things and they know lots of people and you never know until you ask. I could give you another example. I remember a completely a different industry, this is in big pharma. They're trying to discover blockbuster drugs and they work in these big drug development teams.

I was running an event for a group of these scientists, they’re MD, PhD scientists. One person said, “I’m about to pay an outside vendor $50,000 to synthesize a strain of the PCS alkaloid.” Again, I didn't know what he was talking about, but I looked that one up. It turns out that alkaloids come from plants and could be used to make drugs. Well, another person was participating said, “Huh, I had no idea that you had that need.” Why? Because people don't ask. They said, “Now that I know, I could Slack you in – I have Slack capacity in my lab. I can slot you in next week and do it for free. It won't cost you $50,000. It won’t cost our employer $50,000.” They saved all that money and they made a very helpful connection inside of this group. There are lots and lots of stories like that, of the most unlikely things become possible when people ask for what they really need.

[0:18:48.6] MB: Let’s circle back to asking. You touched on a few of the things that prevent people from asking. What have you seen and what does the research shown to be the biggest barriers that people face when – what is causing people for example, to drop out of a study because they're so terrified to ask for something as simple as borrowing somebody's phone, what are the things that motivate people not to ask for what they really need?

[0:19:14.5] WB: A lot of times it's fear of rejection, fear that people are going to say no. Once you realize that most people would say yes if you ask, that can be very liberating. One thing is correcting our beliefs about people's willingness and ability to help. That would be an important thing to do. Another is to realize that you need to learn how to make a thoughtful request. Sometimes people don't know what to ask, or how to ask.

There's been many times when I've run events over the years where people have said to me, they take me aside and they said, “You know, I've always wanted to be in a group of people who are really helpful and generous and well-connected and be able to ask for anything that I want and I can't think of a thing.” This happens all the time. I realized that a lot of times what stands in the way, we don't ask because we're not clear about what we need.

There's a process by which you can do this. At first, you need to figure out why you're asking, what's the goal, what are you trying to achieve? There's different methods for doing that. Once you have a sense of what your goal is, what you're trying to achieve, then you think, okay, with that goal in mind, what resources do I need? What resources would be helpful? Do I need information, advice? Do I need an opportunity? Do I need a introduction, a connection? Do I need someone to sit down or brainstorm with me? Do I need a second opinion on a project, whatever it might be?

You've got the goal. You're trying to solve some problem. You have a request for a resource that you need and then you have to figure out who to ask. Sometimes, we stop ourselves by only asking our close friends, or our inner circle. Now they'll help you if they can, but it's sometimes a lot more powerful to reach out outside of that inner circle. For example, there's a method that I call the 2-step method. It could be that I don't know who to ask, but I know someone who probably does know someone who has the answer. I can ask that person to pay that request forward and connect me with that person. That's a way of reaching experts for an example.

Then finally, you have to make the ask. Let's figure out the goal, that's the destination. Figure out the request, what is it that you need? Figuring out who to ask and then going ahead to make the ask. People go through that process. It gets a little bit easier. I mentioned that there are different methods for figuring out goals or requests. There's one that I call the QuickStart method and I can share a couple of parts of that with you.

It's a bunch of sentence completions. For example, I am currently working on X and I could use help to Y. If you think about that, what am I currently working on? Writing that down and then saying, “Okay, what can I use help for?” Another one would be, one of my urgent tasks is to X and what I need is Y. That would be another example.

There's a friend of mine who is making a transition and becoming an independent consultant. His name is Chris. He said, “One of my urgent tasks is to figure out if should I incorporate, should I be an LLC, should I be a sole proprietorship?” He figures, that's one of my urgent tasks. I got to form the company. What I need is I need to talk to a tax attorney. I need to talk to a lawyer who can help me figure out different corporate forms and so forth. It was going through that process really helped them to think about what is it that I'm trying to achieve and then what do I need to achieve that and then who can I ask?

A third one might be my biggest hope is to X and I need to Y, whatever that might be. I like that one, because we often don't stop and think about what are our greatest hopes and aspirations in life? What are the things that would be helpful in reaching those? Another method is to use what we call visioning. Visioning is developing a detailed, vivid picture of a positive future. When people do this, it's usually a couple of pages long. It takes a while to do. If you have that detailed vision, inspiring image of the future you're trying to create for yourself, then you can identify a bunch of goals that are in that vision, back that out to different requests that you could ask and then figure out who to ask and so forth.

[0:23:31.1] MB: Those are some amazing exercises. I love how practical and specific they are, very easy to start implementing even immediately. One of the interesting meta lessons that comes out of this is this importance of figuring out what you're really trying to achieve, figuring out what matters to you and as some people call it, beginning with the end in mind. If you know what you want to achieve and you have clarity around that, then it becomes much clearer around what resources and people and things you need to start asking for and tapping your network for to achieve that goal.

[0:24:07.5] WB: Absolutely. You need to start with the destination. Where are you trying to go? What are you trying to achieve? I mentioned the QuickStart method and visioning as another way of doing it a little bit more involved. Once we have that in mind and you're thinking about the resources, there are also criteria for making what we call a smart request. Now I use smart in a different way than it is typically used, so we'll spend a moment or two talking about that.

The S is for specific. You want to make a very specific request. The most general request I ever heard was made by an executive from the Netherlands who said, “My request is for information.” That was it. I said, “Wow, can you elaborate?” He said, “No, I can't. It’s confidential.” Well, he didn't get any help, because no one can help with a request like that. He did turn out to be pretty generous. He helped other people, but he didn't get any help for whatever his request was going to be.

S is for specific. The M is for a meaningful. Sometimes in traditional smart criteria, the M means measurable and measurable is nice. I mean, meaningful and important to explain why it's important, why are you making the request. I found that people often leave that out. They figure that if I make it a request, people will assume that it's important, otherwise I wouldn't be making it. People don't know why you're asking, unless you explain. That's very, very important. The why really motivates people to help you.

The A is for action, or action-oriented. You want to ask for something to be done. A goal is not a request. A goal is a destination. A request is something that helps you move towards that destination, so you want to ask for something to be done. Then the R is for real or realistic. It can be a small request, as long as it's real that is meaningful and important. You want it to be realistic, but I wouldn't want people to hold back because of that.

I think about the story I said about Christina who had craniosynostosis and needed a surgeon who could correct this – into this condition. You want to stretch, you want to make big requests, but they do have to be realistic. If your request is to colonize the moon tomorrow, that's not going to happen. You want to make sure that it is realistic. That balance is the inspirational or inspiring part.

Then the T is for time, time-bound. When do you need it by? What we have found is that if you hit all five criteria, all smart criteria, people are a lot more likely to respond. I've also discovered that this works with your boss, it works with peers, it works with friends. I have a teenage son and I discovered that it works with him as well. I don't use the method with him that my father used with me, which was, “You'll do this because I told you so,” which gets compliance, but not engagement. Engagement is that you're doing it willingly.

I try to use a to explain why I'm asking him to do something. Most of the time, he's then willing to do it, because he understands why it's important, why he needs to do it and why it would be a good thing.

[0:27:05.1] MB: Love those criteria. It's really important to underscore this notion that the more specific your request is, the more specific the ask is, the higher probability you have of achieving it. If you have a broad nebulous general goal, it's not going to be as effective when you make an ask for one of the resources or things that you need to move towards that destination.

[0:27:27.0] WB: Yeah. People often think the opposite. If you make a general request that people are more likely to help, but the research and experience shows that that's simply not true. I can give you another example, a personal one. This goes back a number of years, but our 10th wedding anniversary was coming up and I asked my wife what would you like to do. That's a big one. Well, at that time we were big fans of Emeril Live, which is one of the Food Network's celebrity chef shows in New York City and she said, “I'd love to be on that show for our anniversary.”

We tried to get tickets to be on that show and it's more likely to get hit by lightning and win the lottery on the same day than to get on that show. I said, “Well, I don't know. I'll see what I can do.” I had an opportunity. I was running a program for orientation for our incoming business school students, so there's 500 people. Faculty were being piped in on these big jumbo Trons to lead different sessions on different topics. I was doing a variation of this idea of asking and giving. I decided to make a request, which was related to my wife's wish to be on Emeril Live in New York City.

I explained. I used the smart criteria. I mean, the M there is really important. Now a lot of the students were not married, but they remember their parents’ significant anniversaries and how important they were. Some of them were married and they knew the importance personally of anniversaries and the celebrations. Well to my amazement, three or four people came forward. Somebody knew someone who was dating Emeril's daughter, so that's totally true, but it didn't work because they broke up.

The connection that did work was to Emeril’s segment producer on Good Morning America. At that time, he would occasionally do a Friday morning show on Good Morning America. This MBA student and his wife were really good friends with the segment producer and he said, “Look, I'll put you in touch with that person.” It was all done by e-mail and they were going to New York to at least meet Emeril on that particular show. We did. He was really, a really very nice, very friendly guy. Later on, we got tickets to go over to the Food Network. Now that was a total surprise. We thought just meeting him would be enough.

We go across town, we go to where they film the Food Network, turns out that he gave his VIP passes. We’re right up front. To make this even better, it turned out that they were filming the show for the upcoming Valentine's Day. Now this is for our anniversary. I had no idea we were going to be on the show. Of course, I had no idea what the show was going to be about and it turned out to be about Valentine's Day and could not be more appropriate for celebrating our anniversary. It was really, really a highlight. Again, it underscores that idea of asking for what you really need.

I remember afterwards where everyone's leaving and people came up they said, “How did they find you?” I said, “We found them by asking.” Again, it underscores that idea and the importance of asking for what you really need.

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[0:31:44.6] MB: You've shared some amazing tactics for the mechanics of how to formulate better asks, how to figure out what you want to ask for. I'm curious about the psychological barriers. How have you helped people, or what have you uncovered in your work or research around overcoming the fear of rejection, the fear of imposing on others or seeming selfish? How do you help people get past those psychological things that even if we know how to make great request, may stop us from actually making it?

[0:32:14.8] WB: There's two things, education and action. Part of what I try to do is to go through all the reasons why people are reluctant to ask and then to show what we know from research. When you realize if you make a smart, well-formulated request, a thoughtful request, people are more likely to think you're competent, not less competent. I mean, that's liberating for people. When you learn that most people are willing to help if you ask, that's liberating as well, but that's only half of it.

The other half is action. You actually have to do it. There I recommend two things; one, make a small request in a safe place. That could be at home, or it could be with your friends, or it could be at a community organization. Maybe it's at work, maybe it's not. I’d say start with something small and make sure it's a safe place.

The other thing you can do in terms of action is to use some of the tools, like the reciprocity ring. There's many others in which asking is the ticket of a mission. It's easier to ask if you know that everyone has to make a request, everyone's in the same psychological boat, so to speak. I'll give you another example, another really good practice is called the stand-up. The stand-up is widely used at IT and software development firms and I think it has enormous potential for any group.

In a stand-up, you'll have the people in a group or in a team would literally stand up say at 10:00 every morning, stand in a circle and they quickly go around and each person has to say three things. Here's what I worked on yesterday, here's what I'm working on today and this is the help that I need. The help is followed up with later on. Now it doesn't take very long to do that, but it's a requirement. Those are the three things you're supposed to ask about. Knowing that makes it a lot safer and knowing that everyone's going to make a request makes it a lot safer, get everyone in the same boat.

We use that for example at our Center for Positive Organizations. We're not an IT firm. What we do at our center is apply positive psychology to build thriving workplaces, thriving organizations. We try to practice what we preach. Every morning, the staff will have their daily stand-up. They'll stand in a circle and they'll answer those three questions; what I worked on yesterday, what I'm working on today and the help that I need.

[0:34:30.3] MB: That's a great strategy. It's important, that lesson also underscores this idea that it's important to integrate these lessons and the framework of creating structured opportunities for asking into your work and into your life. If you do that, you can start to uncover not only ways that you can find help for yourself, but also ways that you can start to help others across your network.

[0:34:57.3] WB: Yeah. You don't have to be the team leader, or the CEO to start doing this. You could propose these methods. If you're in a group or a team you could say, “Hey, I learned about this idea of a stand-up, or the reciprocity ring and there's a dozen others.” Say, “Let's give it a try.” When then people do, I always encourage them to give it a try for at least 30 to 45 days and to expect some reluctance in the beginning. You know what, people start, they'll start small and they’ll make safe requests, as long as everyone gets to make one. Over time, they start to see the power of this. What I've seen is that people start making bigger and bigger requests. Then that's where things really begin to pay off.

You've got to make that commitment for 30 or 45 days, because at the beginning, people will be a little bit reluctant. You don't want people to stop before they really had a chance to experience the power of doing this. We could also do this in our daily lives. Whenever we meet someone and interact with someone, say hello to someone, every one of those encounters is an opportunity to listen to that person and to think about how you can help that person. You can start the chain that way. Or to think about what is it that you really need and be willing to ask for. Again, try something safe. Try something small and you'll see through action and experience over time how valuable it really is.

[0:36:16.9] MB: What are some of the different styles or ways of asking and do people fall into different camps and categories?

[0:36:25.0] WB: I think sometimes, people they jump to asking too quickly without thinking it through. They're not really clear about the goal they're trying to achieve and they haven't taken the five smart criteria into account. You really want to be thoughtful. You don't want to jump in too quickly. That said, it can be done very casually. It doesn't have to be a formal presentation, or something that's stilted. It can be in a very casual conversation, but to explain why you're making a request, what you need, when you need it by and to give people the opportunity to do the same with you.

Again, you could start that paying it forward at any place. You can start by helping someone, you can ask them what they need. That's another way to start. Say, “Hey, I see you're working on that, whatever that project is. I read something I think might be useful to you. Here's a link to it.” Or, “That gave me an idea. Do you want to sit down? We could talk about that.” You can volunteer to help. That starts a chain, as well as asking for what you need.

[0:37:25.3] MB: Another really important lesson that comes out of all this and coming back to what you just talked about, this notion of paying it forward is that the request is the catalyst that sets off these chains of generosity. You can create a huge amount of really immeasurable, positive impact across your personal, work, social networks by requesting things from people, because that gives them an opportunity to be generous.

[0:37:56.4] WB: Absolutely. What we found is that people are willing to help. They're willing to give. They're willing to be generous, but they can't read your mind. They don't know what you need until you make a request. I think of giving and receiving as a cycle, that there's no giving without receiving, there's no receiving without giving and the catalyst, or the driver is always to ask, always to request. That starts the whole process, the whole cycle turning.

[0:38:23.8] MB: The lessons that you share here are so important. The idea that if we're just willing to ask, that our networks, our friends, our social infrastructure has so much untapped potential is something that could be in many cases and both the research and the examples you've shared transformative to your life, if you're just willing to put yourself out there and ask for help.

[0:38:52.6] WB: It is really true. The research shows that the experience we've had over many years now shows that to be true as well. People are surprised when they engage in some of these activities and exercises to really learn how powerful it is. We're brought up sometimes to really focus on individual achievement and accomplishment. When you think about the test that you took in school, or you had to take the ACT or the SAT. Those are things you all did, you did that by yourself. You fill out your college application by yourself, everything about you that's going to get you into the school that you want to go to, or the job that you're applying to.

In reality, life is about connection and collaboration. It's really about the network. Everyone needs input, everyone needs an inflow of resources of ideas, opportunities, a brainstorming, someone to listen to, even emotional support. We need those resources, we need to in-flow of those resources to really be productive. I say that people should be what I call a giver-requester.

A giver is someone who is very generous, who freely helps other people even if they've never helped them, or will probably never help them in the future. They’re just generous and they help other people. They make requests for what they need, so freely help and freely ask for what you need. Now we found that in our studies, only about 10% of people are in that category of being giver-requesters.

There's a much more common category, which is the overly generous giver. The overly generous giver is someone who freely gives, but doesn't ask for what they need. Now they're very well-regarded, they're held in high esteem, because they're so generous, but their performance suffers and their productivity declines, because they're not getting the inflow of all the resources that they need to be productive.

Now another type is called the selfish taker. Now there actually isn't a lot of these people. There's some. The selfish taker is someone who doesn't help, who is not generous, who asks for what they need. What we found there is that their productivity and performance declines over time as well, because people stopped helping them, because you've got to give back, you've got to pay it back and you've got to pay it forward. Over time, people will see that that person's not so generous, and so they'll stop helping that person.

Then the fourth is probably the saddest one of all, it's the lone wolf, or the isolated person, the person who tries to do it all by themselves, who never asks for what they need and doesn't help other people. I call that a sad state of affairs, because you're really disconnected from the community, you're disconnected from the network. The best place to be is to be a giver-requester, someone who generously helps other people and freely asks for what you need.

[0:41:43.8] MB: That's a great place to be. In many ways, in my opinion at least, helps us wage the concern, or the risk, or the fear, or the psychological barriers that might stop you from asking for something if you're putting yourself out there and giving and helping freely, then you by every right should feel justified in asking for whatever help you need as well.

[0:42:06.8] WB: Yeah, that's right. I like to say that asking is a privilege earned by helping, by giving. Another thing I could say about the overly generous giver is that that's where you find a lot of burnout. In fact, there's an organization for women executives that I work with from time to time in Chicago and they have seminars a couple of times a year and I participate in some of those. I'll talk about the importance of being generous, the importance of generosity, of giving, of helping and invariably, these executives will say, “I give all the time and I'm totally burned out.”

Before I could say anything, all of a sudden it clicks and they go, “And I just realized that I don't ask for what I need.” Just being generous and never asking will lead to burnout. The remedy, or the solution to that is to start asking for what you need. You think about if you've been generous and you've helped all these different people, you've got a big network of people out there who are super motivated to help you and they want to hear from you. In fact, you're denying the power of reciprocity by not asking for what you need. Not only do have permission to ask, you've earned the privilege of asking by being so generous.

[0:43:16.2] MB: For listeners who want to concretely implement one of the things we've talked about today, you've shared some tremendous action steps and implementable things, what would be one piece of homework that you would give them to take a first step and to start asking for what they need?

[0:43:33.7] WB: Well if I could suggest two. One would be to apply some of the elements from the QuickStart method as a way of getting started. That's I am currently working on X and I could use help to Y. One of my urgent task is to X and I need to Y. One of my biggest hopes is to X and I need to Y. If you fill in the blanks there, that's going to get you a long way down the road to figure out what you really need.

Then the other is to assess where you are. Are you a giver-requester? Are you overly generous giver, or one of the other two types? We've created an assessment that is available for free for anyone who would like to take the assessment. It will give you scores on each of those dimensions. How do you rank on giving and on asking? You really get to see where you are and sometimes that assessment could be a big motivation to figure out what you need to do. Like, “Maybe I am an overly generous giver and I need to ask.” Even taking the assessment helps you figure out some of the things that you can ask for.

[0:44:39.1] MB: For listeners who want to find you and your work online, what is the best place for them to do that?

[0:44:44.6] WB: The best place would be to go for the website for my new book All You Have To Do Is Ask, and that's where could find the free assessment as well. The website address for that is simply the title of the book, so www.allyouhavetodoisask.com. There you can learn more about the book. You can take the free assessment and there's other resources there as well.

[0:45:07.0] MB: Well Wayne, thank you so much for coming on the show, for sharing some incredible stories, some interesting research and some great, action-packed action strategies for people to really begin implementing this in your life.

[0:45:18.9] WB: Well, thank you Matt. It's been a pleasure and I've really enjoyed our conversation.

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