The Science of Success Podcast

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Three Dangerous Ideas That Are Putting Our Society At Risk with Dr. Jonathan Haidt

Lace Gilger
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In this episode we discuss several seemingly good ideas that are actually quite dangerous. We start with a look at how the immune system can teach us about the vital importance of being “anti-fragile.” We look at lessons from ancient cultural traditions all the way up to modern psychology research to peel back the layers of our current social dialogue and look at many notions that have permeated our current thinking. What are the best ways to promote growth and development? How can we help heal people who have suffered from trauma? How can we create a framework that allows for our society to seek the truth and solve our toughest challenges? We take a hard look at the answers to these questions and much more with our guest Dr. Jonathan Haidt. 

Dr. Jonathan Haidt is a social psychologist and professor of ethical leadership at New York University’s Stern School of Business. He is the author of multiple books including most recently The Coddling of The American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas are Setting Up a Generation for Failure. He is also the author of over 90 academic articles and his work has been featured across the globe.

  • In teaching psychology 101 Jonathan found that there was much wisdom in the ancient traditions around how we could be happier 

  • There are a lot of really bad ideas being spread these days - despite the fact that they arise from good intentions 

  • What can the immune system teach us about vital importance of anti-fragility?

  • The reason peanut allergies are rising is because America started protecting kids from peanuts in the early 90s

  • Kids need to get sick and be exposed to dirt and germs so that they can be healthier - that’s the cornerstone of the immune system

  • The importance of being anti-fragile

  • If you try to protect children you end up making them weaker, not stronger

  • The importance of play - free play without adult supervision - and letting children take risks

  • We can’t reach natural without a lot of play (in the form of risk taking)

  • Comfort zones are most often expanded through discomfort - we must be uncomfortable to grow

  • Our extreme culture of overprotection has really harmed children

  • Every ancient culture that leaves us with deep writing shares the idea that we don’t experience reality as it really is - we experience reality as we interpret it - our life is the creation of our minds

  • “There’s nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so"

  • You don’t grow in a threatening world - you hunker down and get defensive

  • Children need to be in the zone of exploration and excitement

  • You shouldn’t trust you first reaction - you need to question your first reaction

  • What happens when students themselves ask for protection from ideas and think that ideas will traumatize them?

  • A desire to protect those who are emotionally fragile is wrong - exposure is how you solve fear and emotional fragility

  • The way you overcome a phobia is not by hiding and walling yourself off from what you’re afraid of 

  • If the goal is actually to help people - the entire culture of safetyism - that people are fragile and need to be protected - is directly opposed to the scientific research around what actually helps people

  • Are the phenomena of Safe space, trigger warnings, micro aggressions and the morality of “safetyism” that arose in the last few years healthy for individuals and society?

  • If you goal is healing trauma and helping people improve - embracing discomfort is the best solution

  • If your goal is to seek truth - then you must expose yourself to ideas you disagree with and have others challenge your ideas as well 

  • If you goal is ideological victory then you try to silence your opponents ideas 

  • If people don’t share ideas because they’re afraid of being attacked - then the entire goal of truth seeking cannot be achieved. Today people are afraid of speaking up and afraid of challenging many ideas

  • Humans are tribal creatures - we evolved with a tribal mentality in order to survive - and yet this instinct can be very destructive when we apply it to ideological divides 

  • We’re playing the truth seeking game, we’re trying to make a diverse community, and we must give everyone the benefit of the doubt

  • Just as we don’t tolerate racism or sexism, we shouldn’t tolerate anyone silencing ideas  

  • Silencing discussion and thought policing can actually foster support for damaging and negative ideas

  • This isn’t just a debate about how to interpret reality and communication - the culture of “safetyism” is a major contributor to the rise of suicide and anxiety

  • Since 2011 rates of suicide have risen 25% for men and 70% for women 

  • This is a pragmatic argument - its not moral or political - and yet the dialogue today prevents the discussion of truth from even happening

  • What does the psychology tell us about child development and personal improvement?

  • What kind of norms are conducive to growth and self improvement?

  • The world is incredibly safe now - physically its very very safe

  • We live in a bubble where algorithms confirm what we already want to believe 

  • Anything you say has infinite downside potential - you could be shamed and criticized - the internet and social media have enabled many intellectual “mob” dynamics where ideas that go against the norm are often silenced or never brought up

  • Our evolutionarily ingrained mode of thinking is more tribal/religious and this is directly opposed to the more scientific method of thinking and inquiry 

  • What does it mean to be spiritual, but not religious? We have all the same religious psychology that we’ve always had, but without organized religion. And often these religious tendencies can manifest in social movements. 

  • At times people fighting for a cause can drift into a tribal mindset 

  • How can we “wise-up” ourselves and our children to think more clearly and embrace the lessons of psychology to be healthier, happier, and think more clearly?

  • The “Chicago Principles” for freedom of thinking - an open platform to speak, discuss, and debate ideas - so that you can make your case with evidence and good arguments. 

  • If you don’t have diversity of ideas when you’re searching for truth you often come to erroneous conclusions. When we lose viewpoint diversity the science itself is at risk. If you don’t have diversity you’re likely to have bad thinking. 

  • We have to think about the social process of how imperfect flawed individuals (like all humans) can work together to discover what’s true

  • Homework: Spread these ideas to others.

  • Homework: Think about the context and system you can to improve and think about how these principles can be appleid to keep healthy debate and productive disagreement 

Thank you so much for listening!

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